T.J. Johnston: With the Ireland communiqué, it's clear to many who are still within the Anglican Church of Canada that that church has taken a position that is contrary to classical Anglicanism. Some churches will see fit for a variety of reasons to continue to try to maneuver and work through the process set out by the communiqué...and so at that level, I think many will stay in.

At another level, I anticipate significant movement out. There'll be others that just say, "Okay, this is the end for us. We hung in here, we waited, we want to remain Anglican, but we cannot remain under these coercive and unfaithful structures." They will be stepping out. We see some evidence of that.

BCCN: Can a complete schism right now be avoided?

TJJ: Although the Episcopal Church in the United States and the Anglican Church of Canada may answer that question in the affirmative, I think that after having spoken with at least four or five archbishops since Ireland, that they would say no.

Schism is not inevitable, but the only way it can be avoided at this moment is not by more dialogue, but by both of those churches...coming back under the orthodox, generally accepted teachings of the Anglican Communion. If they don't, there really is not room for conversation...We will find evidence pretty quickly, starting in the June meeting of the Anglican Consultative Council. In the Episcopal Church, next summer they're going to have their convention. If significant moves toward repentance and realignment have not taken place, I believe that you could see the separation.

BCCN: I read that there were some who questioned why the primates settled for a 'voluntary' withdrawal, instead of just kicking them out. Do you share that concern?

TJJ: I have to be honest. When I first read the communiqué, and I saw the phrase 'voluntary withdraw', I said...speaking from an American perspective, it's probably going to take a two-by-four up the side of someone's head to catch their attention at this point. But after talking to the primates, here's where I think we are: They were polite, they wanted to give the Primate of the Church of Canada and the Presiding Bishop of the Episcopal Church some grace, still leaving room for repentance rather than a forced withdrawal. But the reality is: "You will voluntarily withdraw, or if you don't, it will be imposed upon you immediately"...

There is a serious fracture in the Communion along the fault line of biblical orthodoxy at the moment...Even the Archbishop of Canterbury said: "We've finished this communiqué; now let's all come to the (communion) table together," a number of them clearly signaled, "No. Without repentance, we cannot return to communion. That's how serious it is.

BCCN: And yet what I hear you saying is that despite all the trauma...of the past few years, God is actually using all of that for something quite extraordinary.

TJJ: We're in relationship with a God who redeems and restores that which is broken...Does that mean there's going to be a season for some churches to walk through pain and grief and hurt before they can really engage that? Absolutely. People are going to move at different speeds through this process. Are there going to be perhaps years of litigation over property?....Absolutely. But those of us who, by God's grace, have gotten out a little bit earlier need to begin to go ahead and pave the way, for mission and renewal and fruitfulness - and all the things that Jesus would desire of his church.

END