VOL interviewed Bishop Hunter at the recent Anglican Mission in the Americas Winter Conference in Greensboro, NC.

By David W. Virtue
www.virtueonline.org
March 3, 2011

VOL: You recently authored a book "The Surprising Appeal of the Liturgical Church". What's so appealing about liturgy to post-moderns today?

HUNTER: Liturgy is the voice of Scripture in a form. There is something in the air today, something in the spirit of our age, something in the Spirit that is leading thousands, maybe millions, of people to reconsider liturgical forms of worship. Liturgical seekers cherish the confidence that comes from historical connectedness, from theology that is not tied to the whims of contemporary culture but to apostolic-era understandings of Christian faith and practice. Our frantic lives make us yearn for rhythms and routines that build the spiritual health we seek. For many of us the architecture, theater seating and structure of our former churches said to us, "Sit back, relax and receive what comes to you from the stage." While having no need to criticize that, there is a hunger in many churchgoers today for a Sunday ethos that says, "Sit up, be alert and participate."

VOL: Leonard Sweet, author of The Jesus Manifesto said in a lecture that people speak today in images and stories not concepts, points and principles. There is no world view any more. People ask what is your narrative? What is your identity? Where is your voice? Do you agree with that?

HUNTER: He is being provocative I think but not unintelligent. People do live from narrative and their imagination more than they do from data, facts and propositions. To me that is not a post modern statement. I am a critical realist. You cannot dump data, facts and propositions out the window and say they are dumb and then say they don't have the behavior shaping form. We all have a world view. I think Len was trying to say that today the world view of younger people is shaped by images and narrative. It would take some time to unpack the implications of that, so he may have been a bit too un-nuanced.

VOL: How would you define liturgy?

HUNTER: It is the public work and worship of the people. For me, liturgy is a way to bring common sense to word and sacrament. Dallas Willard is on record as saying that spontaneity is over-rated. What I mean by that is this. I came out of the Charismatic World and I have not turned my back on that. To the degree that the Christian imagination is lost, the Prayer Book holds up an imagination for what a Christian life looks like. The Prayer Book sits among us like an unmovable rock and invites one to the distinctive life it shapes.

VOL: Do you have any preference for a particular Prayer Book?

HUNTER: I have no dog in that fight. As a (relatively) new Anglican I needed to give myself to the traditional. I picked the '79 Rite II as a place to start. The more I think about this, I like some of the language in the earlier Prayer Books. They have more theological heft. For instance, sin has lost its meaning in the wider culture. The Prayer of Confession in the '28 Prayer Book is powerful and evocative. It could alert people to what they have lost sight of. I don't think The Prayer Book Cranmer wrote was meant to sit in the back of a pew in the church. I think it was meant sit on a coffee table shaping my life. For instance, for me the Prayer of Confession and absolution are evangelistic and disciple-making tools. It is there to engage the world. The Prayer Book is in solidarity with the world. I want to take it public.

VOL: What made you write the book, The Accidental Anglican?

HUNTER: People were curious. I went from being a member of a charismatic group, the Vineyard, to an Anglican bishop in 20 months. I am 54. I was ordained a deacon in the fall of 2008 and then a priest in spring of 2009 and then consecrated a bishop in the Fall of 2009.

I wrote the book to tell an encouraging story. I think Robert Webber's book "On the Canterbury Trail" was ahead of his time. There is an increasing number of people for whom liturgy and sacramental leanings are increasingly real and I was trying to show one person's voyage.

VOL: Who are some of your heroes?

HUNTER: Three come to mind. Dr. J. I. Packer and Rev. John Stott. Speaking just for myself, for more than three decades, beginning with reading "Knowing God" in the 1970s, and up to key personal meetings in 2009, Packer, with his simple, holy and mature reflections on all-things theological, has kept me grounded. To this day "Knowing God" is a great conversation partner for anyone willing to engage with a classic Christian worldview. Interestingly, as Packer was having this big effect on my life, I never thought of him as an Anglican...it's a tad embarrassing to admit.

John Stott is for me a lifelong model of what it means to be a rector/pastor (who, by the way, in the tradition of English evangelicals wore suits and ties, not collars). His qualities of being, his keen mind, authentic spirituality and dedication to his congregation have shaped my imagination for a number of years. Through his life John Stott models what it means for a pastor to stand in the midst of shifting culture and preach the Word of God.

No one has influenced my overall theology more in the last decade than Bishop N.T. Wright of Durham in the Church of England. He is a highly respected New Testament scholar and author of over 30 books. He came to prominence in the American evangelical world through his orthodox interactions with and challenges to the scholars of the Jesus Seminar. Among laypeople, he is better known for two books, Surprised by Hope and The challenge of Jesus.

VOL: How would you define being an Anglican?

HUNTER: Anglicanism at its best has always been marked by a twin journey: inward into the story of God as revealed in the Scriptures, and outward as we announce and embody the story in the world. These dual foci bring into play both personal piety and service to others.

VOL: Explain how you think Anglicanism and the Kingdom of God interact?

HUNTER: While Anglicans have a very high view of the church, Anglicanism at its best is not self-conscious. It is kingdom conscious. The best thing that could happen to any church is that it be "put in its place." This is critically important to me. Likening the church to a seed, it cannot grow sitting in its packaging. The seed must be placed in the ground of the kingdom, lose its life there, and then flourish and grow as a product and agent of the kingdom. That is, the kingdom of God creates the church. Thus the church is derivative and secondary.

Therefore the kingdom-the rule and reign, or the expression or action-of God is our highest priority. Misunderstanding this has been the root cause of innumerable troubles and failures in churches of all denominations.

VOL: Anglicanism has the reputation of being rigid and bound by the Book of Common Prayer and the Thirty-Nine Articles. Would you agree with that assessment?

HUNTER: Much of the ancient Anglican Church was animated by a missional impulse. In this sense, I am doing nothing new as a missionary bishop. I minister in a long line of leaders whose lives and accomplishments overshadow mine. I am simply taking a baton passed along by evangelistically minded Anglican leaders such as Allen, Newbigen, Stott, Packer, Millar, Fullam, Guest, Gumbel and many more. The Anglican Church has a way of staying anchored to the ancient tradition while being in tune with the ever-changing times.

VOL: In your congregation, Holy Trinity in Costa Mesa, CA, how many former Catholics do you have and why are they coming?

HUNTER: Maybe 10%. Catholics are looking for their life in God in a framework reminiscent of what they grew up with. Kneeling in churches is like rewriting their souls in a God ward direction. We also have evangelicals coming from non-denominational backgrounds looking for something more. In age, we have teenagers to those aged 70 plus. We have gone from zero to over 100 members in 15 months.

I've had other friends say to me, "I am from a charismatic background, but until we started saying the creed, I didn't know what Christians believed." The follow on then is an evangelical follow on. When I talk to my unbelieving friends, I have this creed sitting in my subconscious and it gives me a bit of an evangelistic outline when I talk to them. It was a bit like remembering "The Four Spiritual Laws" in the 70's.

VOL: Leonard Sweet in his lecture to the AMIAers said mission must be done in the language of the culture. He said we must read the bible not in chapters and verses (an ancient template). We must read the Bible in stories, songs and letters...opening ourselves up to the living word. How do you respond to that? You and he seem to be saying different things.

HUNTER: We must speak the gospel in the language of the people. Every missiologist would agree with that. Every conversation Jesus had with people was all customized to who he was speaking with. The essentials did not change. How he got it across was based on the terms of his hearers. We have Paul saying in 1 Cor. 9 "I become all things to all men." This is not a statement of compromise but being willing to be in solidarity with the broken world. This is the godly thing to do. When Adam fell, the first words from God to Adam were, "where are you?" God is desirous of being in solidarity with this broken world.

I think Eugene Peterson in his book "The Message," has St. Paul saying I entered their world and tried to experience things from their point of view, but I kept my moorings in Christ. That is spot on for how we engage the world.

VOL: What's your calling now?

HUNTER: My calling is a divine one, to plant 200 new evangelical Anglican churches on the West Coast.

VOL: Thank you, Bishop Hunter.

END