VOL: You're an Australian, what brought you to Vancouver, Canada?

SHORT: Sydney diocese offered a scholarship to travel to study and/or do further ministry experience. I came to Vancouver to work part time at St. John's with Harry Robinson and complete a Th.M. at Regent College under Jim Packer. When Harry retired, I became rector.

VOL: You've gone through the ecclesiastical and culture wars in the Anglican Communion, which played out first here in Canada when Bishop Michael Ingham proceeded with the blessing of same-sex unions; this is where the first revolt against the universally accepted moral order began. Are you glad it is all behind you? Are there still issues that need to be resolved?

SHORT: Yes. The tectonic plates of global Anglicanism have shifted and are realigning around the theology of Scripture and the gospel. The shifting surfaced first in our diocese which was strongly theologically liberal. When the bishop announced he would proceed with the blessing of same sex unions, we walked out of Synod and appealed for alternative episcopal oversight from the Canadian house of bishops. The bishop brought charges against us and we then entered years of processes from the national and international church - all under the hostility and threats of the diocese. It was our view that we had not left anything, but it was in fact the diocese which had abandoned biblical historical orthodoxy. African and Asian bishops and Primates came into the diocese and sided with us, calling on the diocese to turn back to no avail. Through all the processes there was no openness on the part of the diocese to find a way forward. They had what Jim Packer called a "dam your eyes" attitude.

VOL: St. John's lost its parish buildings and property in Shaughnessy in the property wars and now you meet in a Seventh-day Adventist Church. How is that working out?

SHORT: We are grateful for the hospitality of the Adventists - they use the building on Saturdays and we used them on Sundays. Our church offices are in a different part of town, and some of our groups no longer meet on church property.

VOL: I gather you are the largest Anglican parish in the Anglican Network in Canada (ANiC), perhaps in the whole of the Anglican Church of Canada. What is your Average Sunday attendance?

SHORT: We have 600 ASA with another 100 online. During covid numbers went down, as did most churches, but we have recovered.

VOL: What makes your church a success story?

SHORT: I am not comfortable with the idea of "success" when it comes to the gospel. God has been very kind to us. Over this last year we have had the privilege of planting a new Anglican congregation in Burnaby (a close-by suburb). And we are welcoming a number of refugee families - including a single family of 16 from Afghanistan. We have been able to raise funds for these projects over and above our annual givings.

VOL: Covid saw nearly all parishes of all denominations closing their doors and going online. How did that effect St. John's?

SHORT: We endured months of lockdown in British Columbia. When Covid hit we pre-recorded our services during the week and put them out on zoom. They were low quality. A couple of younger members offered to help us and that was the start of our production ministry which has become place for volunteers at St. John's. We also began daily prayer services on zoom in the morning and evening five days a week, which have become a dedicated places of prayer. One of these groups continues today. We still have close to 100 folks who join online on Sundays. At the start of pandemic I heard Tim Keller say that we cannot do evangelism in a pandemic, but we can prepare for what the Lord will bring after it is finished. So we gave ourselves this challenge and prayed, and we believe the new church plant we have just launched and the welcoming of refugees are two ways God has answered our prayers.

VOL: Was going online a positive or a negative experience in terms of gospel proclamation?

SHORT: Both, but it was largely positive; the Word of God is not bound by the new technology. People who had been converted were discipled online.

VOL: When it was all over and Covid was no longer deemed dangerous to life and limb, did people flock back to St. John's? Do you know the numbers?

SHORT: The place we have seen the strongest growth is young families that had no connection with church. They desired something for their children. We have also seen growth among Chinese immigrants.

VOL: Did you see the numbers fall or did you see the numbers rise after Covid was over?

SHORT: We are not back to where we were, but we are on the way there. Giving is up this year by 8%. Our ministries seem to be flourishing, children, home groups, youth groups etc. We have the best crop of young trainees for ordination through the ARTIZO program. This is an institute to train young people for full time ministry. We thank God for 100 young people who have graduated over the years and the quality of those coming is very encouraging.

VOL: How have you addressed the non-binary and sexuality issues in the church?

SHORT: It's a huge and increasing issue especially on the West coast. School curricula in the primary schools is controlled by radical sexual orientation and gender identity agenda promoted by the Vancouver School District. Our children are heavily catechised at school on the so called 'non-binary' sexuality. We have a growing sense that we need to de-catechise and re-catechise our young people, and to equip our parents to help their children be gracious truthful servants of Jesus in the school system. This last year our youth were guided through Gen. 1 - 3 offering spaces for the kids to ask any question they wished. This proved very helpful. It was Leslie Newbiggin the Anglican missionary who wrote that in an increasingly post-modern culture, churches must be communities of contrast. This has become part of our vision.

It is interesting to see how quickly the sexuality debates change. The diocese we were in, the diocese of New Westminster, forged ahead to bless same sex unions, based on the argument that God has made us and that if I experience homosexual desires - those desires must be affirmed and called 'holy.' However, that argument is deeply resented by many in the LGBTQ community today - particularly in the LG part of the community. They reject the arguments used 10-20 years ago as demeaning to their humanity because they are deterministic. Today my personal agency is more important in the sexuality debate - so I am not homosexual because I am made this way, but because I choose to be.

VOL: In the US we were very compliant with the Covid shut down. We were too friendly with government. The government had infringed on churches and religious freedom. Many were not happy with simple compliance.

SHORT: Every church had to figure out what to do. We gathered a group from the congregation to help guide decisions during Covid. Like every church we had different opinions on most options. We took the decision to try to be good citizens. So we obeyed public health orders. Even if we did not buy the entire public narrative about Covid, we tried, as far as we could to do as asked. However, we decided to never exclude anyone based on whether they would mask or whether they were vaccinated.

VOL: Looking at the big picture; do you see a formal schism in the Anglican Communion with the GSFA and GAFCON uniting against the mostly western liberals and progressives and forming a new communion?

SHORT: I cannot see the liberal structures and leaders returning to the gospel. Kigali was very clear, that Justin Welby has moved further than even Rowan Williams did. For me the question is what could the church look like in the 3rd millennium? If our structures do not serve the gospel we will need to continue to reform and remake structures that do. In Canada, the ACoC, contrary to canon law has created a kind of anarchy with the national church trying to revise the marriage canon. It is impossible to speak with a united voice with those who remain in the old structures. If our fellowship is a fellowship in the truth of the gospel, structural unity with those promoting things contrary to the gospel is impossible. It also means there can be no such thing as two integrities.

VOL: Why have you not accepted the role of bishop? Have you ever turned down such an offer?

SHORT: I have avoided becoming a bishop. The real progress of the gospel is in local churches, and I believe that is where the Lord has placed me. The late John R. W. Stott turned down various opportunities for ecclesiastical position since his view was that he would be freer to preach and teach without the extra responsibility of greater ecclesiastical responsibility. I have been very influenced by him on this matter.

VOL: Thank you David

If you would like to reach the Rev. David Short you can do so here: David.k.short@gmail.com